Comments on: One Cast Member Dead in Disney Monorail Crash

By: Dick Camnitz

Dick Camnitz — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:05:21 +0000

I would like to know who decided to move the vehicles after an obvious major accident. Power should have been killed to both but instead it was decided by someone to again reverse direction on the train in error and move the vehicle again, dragging the impacted vehicle into the station. This happened before the video was taken inside the station and it as shown it happened before Reedy Creek rescue athorities arrived. Was this being directed by the guy at the restaurant? Just askin’.
Extremely poor judgement when there was a person entrapped at the point of impact. If he was not answering his radio and you could see by the damage it was possible he was entangled in the wreakage, you would not move anything. How many times have you heard not to move accident victims?
Is that a correct asumption based on the photo outside taken immediately after and the crash and then video inside taken after they moved inside still not knowing the fate of the driver or condition of passengers?
I’m just curious and by the way, I have been a photographer of emergencies on multiple occasions.
Some of my photography has been in national training magazines. It amazes me when people wonder why video is valuable. Video seldom lies or covers anything up. This was an important piece of documentation in this accident. I’m sure the investigators were very glad to have it. And the victim was at no time visible in the video.

By: Disney suspends two cast members over Monorail Crash | The Disney Blog

Disney suspends two cast members over Monorail Crash | The Disney Blog — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:01:31 +0000

[...] Previously: NTSB investigating Monorail Collision, Disney World Cast Member dead in Monorail Crash. [...]

By: Denise Leanne Defenderfer

Denise Leanne Defenderfer — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:34:20 +0000

I’m saddened, but not surprised. I worked at the Disney Reservation Center and can attest to the fact that they have the lousiest information/communication system on Earth.

By: Denise Leanne Defenderfer

Denise Leanne Defenderfer — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:34:23 +0000

It was bound to happen. Everyone at Disney Reservation Center knows the system (it can’t even hold a telephone number). Very sad. And, oh so preventable. RIP. I will be the first in line to tell the truth.

By: ADIS

ADIS — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:03:07 +0000

TS your comment is right on. I noticed this on my recent trip to Disneyworld over July 4. Many cast members were complaining loudly and I didn’t think many knew what they were doing. Some seemed overworked. I am very interested in the business side of Disney, so I was surprised by what I saw. The uniforms even looked worn out. I also saw many maintenance issues within the resort and in the parks. I even thought about my family’s safety. While cast members may be doing the best they can, they can only do so much. Now, sadly, there is a death. Rest in Peace

By: Frank

Frank — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:12:33 +0000

Having the NTSB may seem like a credible move but even with the NTSB involved, planes still crash and airlines fail at maintenance. I’ve worked in the transportation industry and had drivers on the road for 11 hrs at a time. They work in less attractive conditions without A/C and have to rely on their training and the reinforcement of safety measures. They have to deal with real people in cars, trucks and buses who make poor decisions when they drive. I think we will find that this situation points to human errors more than anything else — and I pluralize errors on purpose.

As far as a CM asking a guest videotaping to leave the area, let me ask you all this: If your loved one was the one killed, would you want some guest making money off of the accident? Probably not and we all know that some guests have tried to do that very thing inside the parks while trying to get CMs in trouble for nothing. I think the CM was right to try to maintain whatever dignity for the situation as possible. As for the CM, he could do nothing more about reaching the victim. It took Reedy Creek and their equipment to open up the monorail.

By: Christopher R

Christopher R — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:22:46 +0000

I think Mike is just saying as a Pilot you have to be situationally aware at all times. Where am I, who’s in front, who’s behind, who’s across and what are they all doing right now.

This accident did not happen because one person dropped the ball. It happened because the 4-5 people in this situation were not paying attention.

By: Christopher R

Christopher R — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:55:56 +0000

I have a few problems with this story, but I’m unsure if procedures have changed or if the reporting is bad.

When I was a Pilot at WDW (88-91) pilots were not allowed to back through switches. Therefore, a driver taking a train to shop from Epcot Beam would change cabs at either Epcot or Concourse (and back through the main-line aligned track in the case of a Concourse Cab Change), then drive forward through the switch onto Exterior and then around through the MK Station to the shop. That way, the driver is 100% sure of what is ahead of him or her. Does anyone know if this procedure has been changed?

Another thing, why is there basically just one old man on the platform? Has the system become so “efficient” that Disney no longer staffs the stations? Why is this guy shooing a photographer away when there’s a kid trapped under Pink’s strobe?

Very sad day for WDW Monorail System!

Kudos to Steve L! You got your facts right! MKVI Monorail won’t speed and there is no way to improve cycle time by rushing trains around the beam. The only way to make the system faster is to accelerate the loading and unloading process, and that’s clearly not relevant in this accident.

By: ImaginingDisney001

ImaginingDisney001 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:14:22 +0000

I agree with the preceeding post.
This is a terrible thing and a life was lost.

Obviously, the trains are inadequate and Disney covers this with proceedures but would you want to drive a Monorail blindly, in reverse, NOT SEEING where you are going HOPING the switch is actually connected to the other track? Wouldn’t that drive you crazy, or do you have that much faith in other people? Yeah, right.

Because a death is involved, there is going to be court time and someone may go to prison. Thats how serious this is. It not like a ride destroys itself and someone just gets fired. Reality will set in on this tragedy.

And now, because Disney cannot trust the trains, or are trying to recover from bad publicity, Guests will no longer be allowed in the nose of the monorail.

I say it is a equipment problem, or lack there of, on the monorails and improper proceedure.

In the long run, it is a good bet, the actual cause will not institute any proper changes, only more added nonsense to look good in the public eye. The lacking equipment that the monorails need will most likely be ignored and it will be business as usual.

Am I Disney bashing, sort of, but they are not doing anything that any other management would not do in a similar situation.

This should not have happened, saying that, someone or many someones, did, or didn’t do something that was required to maintain safe operation.

If the Monorail had a rear view cam and/or rear sensors or some method that the monorails look at each other INDEPENDANT OF MAYPO, the safety measure would be greatly increased. Instead, driving the monorail in reverse is like driving your car with a blindfold on, down I4 at noontime.

Again this is a sad time, my thoughts for the CM and family

By: Disney Fans Honor Fallen Monorail Pilot with Twitter Trending Topic | The Disney Blog

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:06:00 +0000

[...] Previously: Former Monorail Pilot gives possible explanation of accident, Monorail Accident at Walt Disney World leaves Cast Member Dead. [...]

By: Steve L

Steve L — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:34:16 +0000

Kurt – I was thinking the same thing. What is strange about this however is
1) that the driver of pink would have been cleared in forward form epcot ttc then reverse from epcot–>spur–>ttc. If trains were being sent to shop from epcot they would be cleared in reverse starting at epcot ttc so then in forward from epcot–>spur–>ttc and around to shop.
2) if the driver WAS actually cleared in forward from epcot ttc then in reverse from epcot–>spur–>ttc then why the hell would he/she not have realized they were not on the spur line. That loop has to be 1/4 mile long.

By: Steve L

Steve L — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:26:03 +0000

Hello Laurie – I agree with you on this.

By: Spokker

Spokker — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:52:20 +0000

“but until we know the truth from the authorities we can’t find fault with anyone or anything. So how about we wait until the authorities finalize the investigation and then we all will know the truth about who or what to blame.”

Part of the purpose of discussion boards is to discuss and speculate. If that doesn’t sound interesting to you then by all means don’t participate in the discussion or speculation. Realize that people have different value systems and don’t consider speculating about an accident to be disrespectful to the dead.

Also, don’t assume that the authorities are going to let out the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Disney has been criticized in the past for being hush, hush. The guy filming the aftermath was certainly scared away by a Disney employee. Is it company policy that you can’t film accident sites, or was the cast member imposing his own values on another person?

By: KT

KT — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:08:54 +0000

I worked for WDW in 1999-2000, 2001-2002, 2003-2006. My first area was attractions. I remember working two separate weekends (Night of Joy and Grad Nite) from 4 in the afternoon on a Friday to 2 am on Saturday/Sunday morning because of staff shortages. The worst part is that one of those weekends was working Space Mountain. I had to demand that I have a few hours off to rest because I couldn’t stay awake.

I also worked in Watercraft. I know about the late hours in transportation. Once I saw the day shift leave as I was coming in and coming in as I was leaving. This again was due to the fact that we were short on pilots.

Transportation is the area that runs the longest because we have to ensure that all guests are out of the parks. This means that Watercraft and Monorails usually run up to 1.45 hours after park closing and buses run until the park that is open the latest is called clear.

My heart goes out to the CM’s family and friends.

By: Bailey

Bailey — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:21:47 +0000

First my thoughts and prayers go to the drivers family and to the Monorail Department for losing a member of its family. You can attack all the people you want but would it do any good. We all can sit and look at pictures and read second hand stories but until we know the truth from the authorities we can’t find fault with anyone or anything. So how about we wait until the authorities finalize the investigation and then we all will know the truth about who or what to blame.
Just remember a young man lost his life today.

By: Former Monorail Pilot’s Explanation of Crash | The Disney Blog

Former Monorail Pilot’s Explanation of Crash | The Disney Blog — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:17:26 +0000

[...] Previously: Disney World Cast Member dead in Monorail Accident. [...]

By: BigBobxxx

BigBobxxx — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:01:38 +0000

What would the track by the Poly have to do with the Epcot loop track where the accident occurred?

I’m not trying to argue.
But, if there is some operational connection between the two loops, it is not clear to the rest of us reading this.

Thanks.

By: mike williams

mike williams — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:51:16 +0000

I have read what I wrote and would like to add a further note. I know that this was probably the last run or almost last for the night for the operator. I have run P4 through the Poly many times just to get to TTC and finish up for the night. However I always looked as I departed the Pit and also once I got to the top of the hill to see were the other trains were. My trainer always taught me to be aware of the cycle on the track and not depend on MAPO to keep me and my passengers safe. I always looked for the strobe of the train in front of me and knew how many trains were on the track and were the trains were. So as I ran the straightaway towards the Poly I always was watching for the train to leave TTC. If it didn’t I knew I would have to reduce speed after at the hold point outside of TTC until it left. It is all about being a driver and not a rider counting on the systems to save you. It failed in the 70’s at the Pit when Harvey ran Red into a train still in the station by bypassing the MAPO because they wanted fast cycle times. It is probably not the reason this accident happened because it was so late at night, this one occurred because the driver was in a hurry to clock out and go home and wasn’t paying attention to the location of the other trains, relying on the “systems” instead of the training you receive.

By: mike williams

mike williams — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:59:08 +0000

I believe the indecent was caused by operator error, If MAPO or whatever they are calling it know was not working then the driver should have been able to see the train in TTC. however if He panicked and pulled back on the control arm and lost his dynamics then the air brakes would have not been able to stop the train in time. I have lost my dynamics several times and had to recycle the arm to get them back. The air brakes would have not been enough to stop me before passing a stop point om the beam. As tragic as this was it shows that WDW needs to train competent operators for its transportation systems. I was trained to look ahead and not rely on the MAPO or whatever systems they have installed on board. I was trained to be responsible for the train and for the guests I had on board.

By: rob

rob — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:51:27 +0000

We were at Epcots Monorail station approx. 6pm. Pink pulled into the station very slowly. 23′d boarding. Went into the control room. Castmember said there as a maint. issue. Driver came back out and went into the cockpit THEN boarding started a few minutes later. There was some maint. issues with pink earlier in the day. Also Rode Purple out of TTC back to epcot after MK fireworks.

This is very sad.